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me and you with wings on our feet

  • Sep. 15th, 2007 at 2:27 PM
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At least in the UK, and likely in other countries around the world also, there's a religious group commonly referred to as the "Hare Krishnas" (after the mantra they often chant), though these are commonly (but not always, as I will explain) from a group called ISKCON, or the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. This is part of a branch of Hinduism called Gaudiya Vaishnavism (also known as the Bhakti movement) which emphasises devotional practice, known as Bhakti yoga. Even though my beliefs are mainly Buddhist, I find the teachings of these groups quite intriguing as well.

I quite often see the ISKCON guys in town, and I've had conversations with them in the past; I've been given two or three books in exchange for a small amount of loose change, which I've found pretty interesting. It seems their beliefs are not incompatible with Buddhism; however, I recently got a book on Hindu gods, which describes Buddha as an incarnation of Vishnu, the 9th to be precise. To quote:

Seeing that many humans no longer regarded the ancient [Vedic] scriptures as valuable, Vishnu decided to preach a false religion and in this way seperate the true believers from the false.

The teachings of Buddhism, which grew out of Vishnu's incarnation as Buddha, have become one of the world's great religions, so from our perspective it is difficult to tell what is a false religion and what is true, and which believers have been saved. During his life and for several hundred years thereafter, Buddha was disavowed by Hindus, for in their eyes the religiousness he taught was false.

This (probably) explains why, a few years ago, when I went to an Indian restaurant in Amsterdam wearing a Buddhist japa mala, I was told that I shouldn't wear it and should instead go to an Indian astrologer. Still, it comes as a surprise, because I didn't know about this schism before; I know only a couple of Hindus personally, and I've never really talked to them about their beliefs.

When I was in town the other day, I met another person who I assumed was from ISKCON; he gave me some incense (Nag Champa, my favourite kind, and one that I know [info]kitsunefury really likes too) and a CD with a booklet. The booklet was filled with beautiful photographs and quotes, with the CD having an introductory talk about the beliefs, with music in the background. The person who gave me these things wasn't one of the ISKCON guys, though I can't find out a description of this particular organisation on Wikipedia or anything, only that their site (as listed on the incense and CD packaging) is Pure Bhakti. I've sent a couple of emails looking for more information and maybe some introductory books, as I found the site a little confusing to someone like me who is unfamiliar with many of the terms used. (ISKCON have various books available also, but I'll finish the ones I already have before getting in touch. It's likely I can get more from the people seen on the street, anyway.)

The CD, on the other hand, is very clear and easy to understand. Much of it seems similar to the teachings of Buddhism, actually, even on some quite esoteric subjects, though the main points of difference seem to be on the existence/eternality of the soul (mostly denied in Buddhism) and that, unlike Buddhism, the chief goal is not personal liberation, but beyond that: mutually loving, devotional service to god (Krishna). This seems not entirely dissimilar to the Bodhisattva ideal in Buddhism; except in that case, one is serving not (just) god, but all beings. Again, not incompatible, and I'm considering incorporating their mantra -- hare krishna, hare krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare, hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare -- into my practice from time to time. We'll see what, if anything, the responses to the emails bring.

I got another book recently (mainly because it was very cheap, yay discount bookstores) about the lives of novice monks in Thailand; often young children escaping from poverty, illiteracy and abuse in rural areas, they go to Buddhism (or, more often, are sent to monasteries by families who can't manage their upkeep) as a refuge for both physical and spiritual reasons. The author, previously a businessman, has also written another book, which I plan to get, about his experiences of becoming ordained in a Thai monastery at the age of 45, and his life as a monk. I'm not sure I could become monastic myself, though the idea isn't without its appeal.

Comments

( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]kitsunefury wrote:
Sep. 15th, 2007 02:56 pm (UTC)
That's actually really rather interesting about the comparisons between Buddhism and Hindus there.
[info]electricdog wrote:
Sep. 15th, 2007 06:40 pm (UTC)
Yar, it's a pretty interesting subject. There's a lot more to it than the similarities and differences I outlined, of course, but you can always read up on it if you're curious; Wikipedia's actually a pretty good source.

Both Hinduism and Buddhism originated in India, but one of the key things about early Buddhism was that it went against not only the Vedic religions (i.e. based on the texts of the Vedas) but also the caste system of the time; no-one was 'born' into priestly or higher-level roles, everyone was equal, and it was amongst the first beliefs to allow women to hold equal rank to men.

Things get much more convoluted as time goes on, and in the present day there's still some degree of politics to the whole thing. I wrote a while back about the teacher and author Kelsang Gyatso and his organisation, the NKT, though to cut a long story short, they're best avoided for many reasons.

I keep forgetting to ask -- would you like to come to the Buddhist centre with me sometime? I know they do introductory courses from time to time, and I'd be more than happy to come with you to one of those :)
[info]kitsunefury wrote:
Sep. 17th, 2007 07:43 am (UTC)
Sure, why not? :) I have free time occasionally from work and everything else, so I should be up for that at some point. ^^
[info]electricdog wrote:
Sep. 17th, 2007 07:59 pm (UTC)
Coolies :) The courses are usually on a Wednesday evening (at least, they were when I went; first time was with [info]steel_phoenix, then again with [info]kyu_diary) and go on for 6 weeks, with a follow-on course of another 6 weeks. The classes are on from 7:30pm to 10pm.

I emailed them earlier and apparently the most recent course started last Wednesday, but they said it'd be fine to come along this week instead; you probably didn't miss much in the first class. I know it's kinda short notice, but let me know if you'd be up for it and I'll happily come with you -- or we can wait until another time if you'd prefer :)
[info]toob wrote:
Sep. 15th, 2007 10:26 pm (UTC)
The Hare Krishnas used to be really active in the US, from I think about the 60s to the 80s. They would stand around in airports, berobed and bald, handing people flowers. I think Americans saw them more as a joke than anything else. I never saw one, but they were portrayed a lot in movies for purposes of comedy.
[info]electricdog wrote:
Sep. 16th, 2007 11:13 am (UTC)
Aah, I didn't know about that. Over here, especially in the north of England, they're known as the 'gouranga guys' after the word they often ask people to say. Again, that's a reason people see them as a bit of a joke here as well.

Still, I think at the very worst that they're pretty harmless, and for all their evangelising I think they do good. Not that I necessarily believe what they do, but as people who stop you on the street go, they're amongst the most polite and friendly I've ever encountered.
[info]kitsunefury wrote:
Sep. 17th, 2007 07:43 am (UTC)
True, met a couple myself occasionally. Was really nice talking to them. ^^
[info]electricdog wrote:
Sep. 17th, 2007 04:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah, they seem like nice guys. There was one of the ISKCON monks that was usually in town on a Wednesday that I got on with really well. In general though I think I liked the guy from the Pure Bhakti group a bit more -- we've been talking over email as well, and I'll likely post something about that soon.
[info]shakag wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2007 08:12 am (UTC)
Pure Bhakti
Pure Bhakti appear to be following the guru commonly known as Narayana Maharaj. The difference between this sect (commonly known by hare krishnas as Narayanis) and ISKCON is that ISKCON follows A.C. bhaktivedanta Prabhupada, a godbrother of Narayana Maharajha's Guru.
Small world, Big differences. Thought you might want to know
ShakaG
[info]electricdog wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2007 11:24 am (UTC)
Re: Pure Bhakti
Aah, thanks for the clarification. I think that, regardless of whether I end up practising with either group, I'd like to find out more from the point of view of comparative religion, if nothing else. They seem like nice people, regardless; I respect them, even though our paths are different.
( 10 comments — Leave a comment )

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